A Deep Dive with Nadine Wedderburn, Professor of Public Affairs and Policy

Professor of Public Affairs and Policy Nadine Wedderburn joined Empire State University in 2010, witnessing the university’s transitions in the last sixteen years, and delivering course material throughout it all. Wedderburn teaches in the College of Social and Behavioral Sciences while simultaneously conducting research focused on the Caribbean, sociology, and criminal justice, among other topics.  

Her vibrant background populates the screen; a large map of the Caribbean displayed behind her head. To the left, a dense collection of books—keywords like “caste” and “metaracism” are discernible from the computer camera’s vantage point—and in the right-hand corner, a colorful purple and green tapestry with a pattern. Her braids drape neatly over her shoulder as she smiles.

Can you tell me about your hometown and upbringing?

Wedderburn: I was born in the parish of St. Ann in Jamaica of the West Indies in the Caribbean. The parish of St. Ann is one of 14 parishes in the country—the island is divided into parishes based on colonial history. St. Ann, on the northern side of the island, is the third-largest parish. My hometown is Salem, a small district. We refer to what the United States would call towns or villages as districts in Jamaica.

Salem is where I grew up, where my parents raised me. My parents are from other parts of the island, but they made their home in Salem, off Runaway Bay in St. Ann—that has shaped my life. It is a small fishing village. I live right by the sea, and that has also made a lifelong impression on who I am today.

I look forward to going home because it’s sort of a ritual for me. My mother is still there, so we go to the beach every morning to begin the day. Then, I walk on the beach, do a few laps up and down getting some morning exercise. Being from Jamaica, the country is known for tourism, and people go to the beach as part of their vacations. For me, it’s a little different. I like to commune with the fisher people on the beach, find out how things are going with them.

It’s also a remembrance of how my ancestors got to the island in the first place—knowing that people of African ancestry came to the island by way of the transatlantic slave trade, on ships. I always have thoughts of what that must have been like and how that has changed the landscape over time.

What were some of your early interests and passions?

Wedderburn: I’ve always loved to learn. I learned to play the piano at a very young age, so I developed a deep love for music early on. For me, music is more than the genre, it’s a language. I like to think that it’s also helped develop my critical and analytical mind. There’s so much about music that’s mathematical.

I also developed a love for math early on. And perhaps, just interesting people. Growing up in Salem, I was constantly around people of all walks of life. From early on, I was always seeing people from other parts of the world coming to my little town. I’ve always been curious about what other people’s lives are like. I also love to read. I developed a rabid appetite for reading early on.

Do you have a favorite book? If so, what is it?

Wedderburn: I’ve had favorite books at different stages in my life. Right now, my favorite book is called “Homegoing.” It’s written by a Ghanaian-American woman, Yaa Gyasi. It’s my favorite right now because of the style of writing or structuring the book. It follows generations of Africans through two sisters’ lives and their family life cycles in alternating chapters. It’s fictional, but it’s based on historical facts.

When I was growing up, my favorite books were the “Nancy Drew Mystery Stories” by Carolyn Keene. It was a challenge, because it wasn’t easy to get those books in Jamaica at the time. I’d go to the library and find them, and then there were some missing ones … every now and again, if I had a relative that was coming from the U.S., they might bring me two books. We would also do exchanges with friends at school.  

[Wedderburn enthusiastically shares more titles, particularly the “Sweet Dreams” novel series. Her face lights up as she lists the books of her teenage years.]

Going back to your perspective as a native Jamaican—and this is a loaded question—is “ethical tourism” possible in Jamaica?

Wedderburn: In my mind, any activity that extracts resources from a place or people without any deliberate return or reciprocity—and by deliberate, I mean meaningful—cannot be ethical.

I would say the same for exploitation, if you’re going to take advantage of people without considering what their needs are in a fair and just manner. People say, “well, people are getting jobs, right?” Yes, but at what rate of pay? People are getting jobs, but there is no thought about how their families and children are being cared for.

I still see things like these happening in Jamaica, and they continue to happen at remarkable rates. I remember when hotels in Jamaica were probably no more than 100 rooms. Sprawling landscapes are what hotels are all about now—they take up all the beachside properties, with very little access for Jamaican people who live there. It remains to be seen what sorts of remedies we can put in place to address those issues.

Let’s talk about your professional trajectory. What drew you to Empire State University, and what are some of the courses you teach?

After finishing high school, I started university. Speaking to my love of math, I started a degree in mathematics at the University of the West Indies in Jamaica. At the time, my father thought that getting a degree in math wasn’t promising professionally, so he encouraged me to look into engineering. He thought that had a promise of a more lucrative career upon graduating, so I did it.

It took me to Rochester Institute of Technology, and I completed a degree there in civil engineering technology. For a number of years, I worked in construction management and then went back to school and did a master’s in engineering management at Florida Institute of Technology. Around the September 11 attacks, I was in Florida working in construction management, and we were laid off because the company was based in New York. Everything in New York shut down for quite a while.

I thought, “I don’t know what I’m going to do—let me go back to school.” I started looking at a doctorate in urban planning because that’s what I really wanted to do to begin with. I had hopes of going back to Jamaica to get involved in land planning and urban development. At the time I entered Florida International University and started looking at the urban planning program, it wasn’t quite turning out to be what I wanted, so I moved into the public administration program, and I graduated with a Ph.D. in public affairs.

I went to Latham—at the time—for my interview with SUNY Empire, got hired, and haven’t looked back since. I teach in the public affairs program. Some of my courses are Public Policy, Public Administration, and Social Welfare Policy.

I’ve also taught courses like Cultural Diversity Competence, Diversity in the Workplace, and more recently, I’ve been teaching Race, Crime, and Justice. I teach the Public Administration Capstone. With my love of the Caribbean, if the need arises, I may also teach a course in Caribbean Studies. I’ve taught courses for Black women writers at a women’s and gender studies residency. Even courses like Diversity in the Workplace have been informed by my training in public administration. In higher education, the assumption is that you specialize in one area, but my life has been quite interdisciplinary, and I believe in bringing that to my teaching.

I enjoy teaching educational planning because I like seeing how students bring their own experiences to their learning to help them complete their degrees. Credit for Prior Learning has been an important part of my teaching journey.

What topics does your research center on?
Wedderburn: My teaching informs my research, and I believe in keeping my teaching as current as possible. I do a lot of research in order to teach. I find myself researching sociology, criminal justice, and politics a lot. I don’t claim to be a political researcher, but I read widely to stay current.

On a more direct level, I spend a lot of time looking at slavery archives in Jamaica, because my current research wants to get at the origins of education policy in Jamaica. In order to do so, I have to go back to pre-emancipation times, because what we call public education really started with how enslaved people were informed and made aware of their situation at the time, and their rights. A lot of that was controlled, as you can imagine. I’m interested in finding out how much enslaved people educated themselves in community, so that’s where my research engines are spent these days. The time before last that I was home, I went to the archives at the National Library of Jamaica to get some information.

How do you encourage your students to think about their roles as future public administrators in creating change?
Wedderburn: I would like to think that my teaching inspires students to be changemakers. In higher education, we constantly dance between the curriculum to be taught and what students want. Students come to us with their own ideas and questions about what the course can offer them.

What I try to do is find real-life situations that match the curriculum and talk about that—whether in a reflection, paper, or discussion post—so they get to share and learn from each other in that way. I challenge them with difficult questions, because it gets them to go a bit deeper than the surface.

In a few days, you’re presenting “A Soundtrack for Liberation.” What can you share about this project?

Wedderburn: Thanks to the Office of Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion, I received a grant to prepare this multimedia presentation. I read Ruha Benjamin’s “Imagination: A Manifesto,” and it’s a powerful book to me. What it says is that imagination is liberating, yet many people’s ability to imagine, or their being granted permission to even imagine, has been restricted.

There is a sense that we think of imagination as this sort of illusory, magical thing, right? That, if all we’re going to do is sit and imagine all day long, we’re not going to get very far. But she points to the fact that everything begins with that—imagination—good and bad. Imagination is power.

I thought of making a presentation on that. I’m sure she’s not the first or only one to have brought this up, but Benjamin brings it into the current moment. She asks, how much do we encourage each other to imagine? So, teachers, how do you encourage students’ imagination and creativity while teaching? Even looking at the government—because as a public policy person, policies are not created in a vacuum. We can be more creative with our public policy if we’re going to truly serve all the people we intend to serve. What does that say for policy makers, elected officials, to be able to imagine newer and better things?

And then, of course, I shared my love of music earlier. As a Jamaican, logically, I always fall back on Bob Marley. I thought, what if I put together a soundtrack for Ruha Benjamin’s book to make the presentation more engaging?

It comes down to five songs interspersed with quotes from Benjamin’s book to encourage our community to imagine a new world, a better world, or at least begin to think of the power of imagination to make a better life for all of us. I’m looking forward to presenting it and hearing what people have to say.

Beyond Bob Marley, what is on your personal soundtrack? What music inspires your work?

Wedderburn: My playlist is a mixture of classic reggae, up to the 1980s, then dancehall. I like Tanya Stephens, Shaggy, Beres Hammond and Beenie Man. My dancehall taste probably falls off around the year 2000. I like R&B—love Mary J. Blige. I also love African music, what’s known as Afrobeats, which is sort of a misleading term. To me, all the music of the diaspora is Afrobeats, because how are you going to listen to salsa and not hear the drums in that? Where do you think that came from?

I like happy music, but music that is soulful—a lot of what we call “oldies,” artists like Otis Redding, Sam Cooke. I love jazz because of my love for piano music.

What’s one song you think everyone should listen to?
[Wedderburn laughs, bewildered at the prospect of choosing just one song. She decides to take some time to think and later sends an email with her selection: “Just Do You” by India.Arie.]

And finally, what is one thing you feel is important to share this Black History Month?
Wedderburn: Though we set aside a month to recognize the achievements and history, Black history is celebrated every month in many households across the country. Black people celebrate achievements every day; Black people’s history is ever-present with them. It’s important for others to recognize that fact, because this country’s successes and failures have a lot to do with how Black history is celebrated.